The Dark Knight Fizzles: My Biggest Nitpicks! (Spoiler Alert!)

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES has finally arrived and once again we have exaggeration and hyperbole overload surrounding how good it actually is. Don’t get me wrong, this is a fitting end to the saga and is, for the most part, very good. But here are some of the gripes – which some may deem as nitpicks – that I had with the film.

Be warned MAJOR SPOILERS are to be found from here on!
 Bane’s Voice

No, I’m not complaining that it was unintelligible. On the contrary, I found it too clear. I was fine with the original mix during the prologue, but the second Bane spoke in the finished version I was confused and disorientated. How was his voice suddenly so clear? Other characters are yelling over the sound of the plane but Bane has an omnipresent voice that even manages to beat out Hans Zimmer’s obnoxious score. In that scene he also has a sack over his head, so shouldn’t his voice be distorted just a little bit? Not once throughout the entire film did I feel Bane’s voice was coming from his character, it was just an announcement over the PA system.

 

The Dialogue

Nolan really loves to hammer us over the head with his themes. Yes, his films are smarter than most blockbusters, but we don’t require every single piece of dialogue from every incidental character to tie together. It destroys the audience’s involvement with interpreting the subtext. So when John Blake is hurrying the orphans onto a bus and tells them it will shelter them from the blast, do we really need his conversation with the Priest about lies and hope? Did anyone not understand what Blake was doing? The other cringe-worthy moment came during the stock market heist. “I keep my money in a mattress.” Oh, just shut up!

 

Alfred

I wanted to slap him so hard throughout this film. He was like the hysterical woman from AIRPLANE! Every scene he was in resulted in a flood of tears. I’m pretty sure at one point I saw the ‘For Your Consideration’ title pop-up at the bottom of the screen. I get that he loves Wayne, but wasn’t he supportive of him throughout the first two films? Now he has a pompous ‘I told you so’ look constantly slapped across his face. When he wasn’t crying he just happened to have all the exposition a crime fighter needs. Batman may be able to find out about Selina Kyle from his advanced computer, but when it comes to masked mercenaries, Wayne’s butler is an encyclopedia of knowledge.

 

Eye Of The Bat

For a man so set on subverting the comic book genre, it’s amazing that he fell into tropes present in other films. One such example is the underdog comeback fight found in many boxing films. The first fight between Batman and Bane sees Batman get annihilated. He doesn’t stand a chance, and it’s both great and terrifying to see a hero beaten so horrifically. After this fight he has his back broken and eventually comes back. So why was he so much more powerful than Bane in their second fight? Shouldn’t he have struggled even more? I guess a broken back is just what you need to overcome your greatest foe. PAIN IS THE CLEANSER.

 

Where The Hell Was That Prison?

Remember when Batman went to Hong Kong? You got a sense of distance thanks to the scene of the plane arriving, Lucius in Hong Kong, and some beautiful establishing shots. Alternatively, this film transports us to… erm, I don’t really know. I think it’s a place just outside Gotham. I say this because after Batman has his back broken, we skip to the arrival at the prison. Bane’s there, but the next second he’s teleported back to Gotham. After Wayne’s struggle to get out of the cave we’re prepared for his long journey home… only we don’t see that. He just walks straight into Gotham, past the armed soldiers, over the cracking ice, and just happens to bump into Catwoman. I guess it was a 5-minute walk, and the fresh air has done Brucey some good.

 

The Editing

Talk about a mess. I’m pretty sure one of the scenes was even in the wrong place – as Gordon and Miranda Tate brought before Judge Crane. Bane then asks for Miranda to be brought to him. The next scene has Wayne enter the building and talk to Lucius and Miranda, even though she was just called to see Bane. Later, Batman asks where Miranda is and he is told that Bane took her. But Wayne was the last person to see her. Add to that the constant flashbacks for the sake of those that skipped BATMAN BEGINS, and the PG-13 friendly violence that just cuts to dead characters without any explanation – was Foley shot, run over, or did he just die from embarrassment when he realised he was wearing his wife’s underwear? It all adds up to a big headache.

 

Lazy Writing

How do the Nolan brothers get away with such lazy writing at times? They do stuff others would be hanged for. I’ve already mentioned Alfred’s knowledge of mercenaries and Wayne just appearing in Gotham, but there is more. Early on John Blake confronts Wayne about being Batman. Did he piece together the facts that Batman appeared when Wayne came back from the dead, and disappeared at the same time that Wayne became a hermit? No! He saw it in Wayne’s eyes when he once visited an orphanage. Anything would have been better than that crap. Why not just say “I remember Reece saying he knew the identity of Batman 8 years ago. Found out Wayne Enterprises was one of his clients. Put 2 and 2 together”.  Bane is even luckier, as he discovers the truth about Harvey Dent thanks to a note written by Gordon, because we all walk around with our deep dark secrets in our breast pocket. I would have loved to have heard Bane’s speech when releasing the prisoners without that lucky find. “I’m releasing the prisoners now. That is all.”

 

The Final Reveal

The final reveal that Miranda Tate is really Talia Al Ghul must be one of the most obvious twists in recent memory. If it was supposed to be an emotional moment of betrayal, it failed as her and Bruce were together for just one night. There wasn’t any time to build on their relationship or give it any weight. Next, it makes Bane just another dog on a leash doing a woman’s bidding, which is exactly what he was in BATMAN AND ROBIN (1997). Bane is quickly pushed aside for an underwhelming chase with a woman that is as threatening as that Butler from THE ARISTROCATS (1970).

As I said at the start, this is still a very good film. But whereas, even after four years, I still have to think long and hard about criticisms for THE DARK KNIGHT, the failings of THE DARK KNIGHT RISES just stood out and detracted from my enjoyment of the film.

Am I being too critical? What bits did you not enjoy? Let us know.

aroundtheweb
Luke likes many things, films and penguins being among them. He's loved films since the age of 9, when STARGATE and BATMAN FOREVER changed the landscape of modern cinema as we know it. His love of film extends to all aspects of his life, with trips abroad being planned around film locations and only buying products featured in Will Smith movies. His favourite films include SEVEN SAMURAI, PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC, IN BRUGES, LONE STAR, GODZILLA, and a thousand others.

122 Comments

  1. Thomas

    July 22, 2012 at 8:28 am

    I LOVED the Dark Knight. Howver you bring up good points to this movie that I didn’t notice before. Suree it’s a good flick(I guess), if you can ignore the Bane-trying-to-be-joker copy off that Nolan did. And MANY OTHER frustrating obvious comparisons. The movie was very messy. I could go on and on and on…
    It doesn’t suck, it just isn’t a good follow up. It doesn’t meet the second one by any means. If any of you know comic story lines, then you might know that Bane was COMPLETELY off from the story from there. Sure this suppose to be Nolan’s version, but it isn’t NOLAN’s CHARACTER. It’s him borrowing and putting his own take. The first Bane and Bats fight was boring. The scene before that with him and Catwoman was good, but then after that, it seemed all Nolan wantedd to do was break Bats’ back. And Bane’s voice was yes, very distracting.

  2. Chris Wharfe

    July 22, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    While I agree with you on some points – namely the choppy editing and your point about the Lazarus Pit – I have to say I loved Bane’s voice.

    It was just in such stark contrast to his physical appearance that it really throws you off. It’s almost friendly in a sense, so charming and British whilst simultaneously cold and calculating. These qualities are polar opposites, yes, but Bane’s voice meshes them all together pretty well.

    My main niggle with the film was Bane’s death – while I couldn’t help but thinking all the way through the fistfights ‘why not just shoot him?’ (yes, Batman’s policy is no guns, but what about the countless other citizens of Gotham?), when it happened, I was a bit disappointed with how abrupt it was.

    Oh, and let’s not forget this little doozy: why were the entire police force unarmed in their charge against Bane and his mercs at the end? Did their guns just pass their use-by-date while underground? Or do they seize functioning without direct sunlight…?

  3. Luke Ryan Baldock

    July 23, 2012 at 8:11 am

    I had no real problem with Bane’s actual voice, I thought Hardy’s interpretation was fantastic. My problem came with how it was handled in post-production. It just never felt as though the sound came from him, each time he spoke I was very aware that I was in a cinema.

  4. nelson

    July 23, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    i do resonate with your thoughts in almost everyway .. while i didnt nitpick on such things as the location of the prison, i do see the point. however, i do feel exactly as you felt about Bane and i kept bragging that while finally his character is done justice, it isn’t the best justice for him that i would expect after what was seen in Batman and Robin… his voice was very dictatorial (i hope thats a word) and he came off as a menace in the beginning and after that first fight with batman i was ready for mayhem that he would cause, only to find out that he was reduced to a bystander watching as the city went down in flames and then eventually was reduced to a weakling in that second encounter with batman, and even more so like you said, was revealed to be just another dog on a leash working for talia al ghul until he was completely blown out of the picture so suddenly by catwoman of all people. where as the joker became a much greater threat as the movie progressed and just upped the stakes to unimaginable heights with his crimes (to the point where harvey dent even fell into madness), Bane didnt bring that … he started off great but he didnt get worse and worse with his crime … he didnt make me feel the way the joker did … and in an instant, he is gone and all that left is an unsatisfying encounter with talia al ghul, which is somewhat sadly reminiscent of how brief Venom’s appearance was in Spider-Man 3, for a villain of its stature …. dont get me wrong,, the movie was good but unlike TDK, there is a lot more i wanted from Bane being that he was set up as the main villain … he was already a dog on a leash in Batman and Robin … its fine that talia was here but i feel that Bane should have still ran the show and the ending should have been more dramatic than it was with Bane really almost breaking batman down emotionally and physically .. i root for the hero but the hero had too much of a victory at the end and made Bane look shameful whereas the joker really had gotham city on its knees and there is almost nothing i have to complain about in TDK. i worship heath ledgers joker with a passion .. with Bane, he started off awesome but i want to forget about his weak ending in this film .. im unimpressed with his demise in the film … in TDK, you really feel like for the first time, the bad guy really won the final battle and it had a very dark ending which was a nice change from the typical bad guys always die ending .. then TDKR retreats back to that same method where its all a happy ending.

  5. Blake Simmons

    July 23, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Yeah, while I can respect some of these points, I think you were being too critical, and I really feel like some of the gripes contradict each-other. One gripe is that the dialogue doesn’t allow the audience to interpret the subtext, but then later some of your complaints revolve around there not being enough explanation, such as us not knowing where the pit was located (that was the point I would imagine), and that Alfred’s knowledge of random mercenaries is unrealistic. I could be wrong here, but I think it’s implied that Alfred helps Bruce with research and this is probably where he got his information from. Speaking of Alfred, while he’s always supported Bruce, very rarely has he ever expressed that he wasn’t afraid for his life. Bruce is like a son to Alfred, and after 8 years of retirement he’s decided to go back to fighting crime. It’s gotten to the point where Alfred has a very real fear that Bruce is not going to survive this time (he almost doesn’t). My last point, then I will digress, is that the two fights between Bane and Batman are pulled from the comic books, and I think the idea is that once Bruce was able to harness his fear instead of facing it (in the pit) he was able to fight Bane on a higher level. Factor in Bane’s surprise that Batman is back in Gotham, and I think it makes pretty decent sense. That’s just me.

  6. Anne

    July 23, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    re Lazy Writing

    Gordon was going to give/gave a speach at the “Dent day memorial thing”. That is why he was carrying his confession in his pocket. It was part of his speach. We se him put it in the pocket earlier. I dit not find that odd. I did however find it odd, that the crowd just belived in Bane without question. In my mind it would take more for a saint like Dent to fall from grace.

    (Sorry if the english is bad. I am danish.)

    Anne

  7. Derrick Burris

    July 23, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    You have fans to thank for Bane’s voice. they bitched so much upon initially hearing it in the first 6 minute trailer that Im sure it was adjusted in post production. As far as the Bane/Batman fights go, remember Ra’s Al Ghul stated in the first film that when it came down to it, skill didnt matter in the end. All that mattered was the will to defeat ur opponent. when Batman first encounters Bane, his will is gone & his spirit is broken, thus Bane kicks his ass. In the second battle, Batman is pissed & has just mentally brought himself back from a (dislocated?) back & crawled out of a pit to face Bane for the second time to save his city. His will was stronger for the second battle. My only complaint was that the second fight should have lasted a bit longer & that it was kind of a cop out for Catwoman to have killed Bane. If Batman was to truly overcome, then he should have been the one to defeat Bane in face to face combat, which he had already kind of done but hadnt finished it.

  8. jmoney

    July 23, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    It was a good movie.. I did notice the Miranda tate courtroom flaw.. and turned to my buddy to task him the same thing. Alfred added one thing that the other movies did not.. an emotional tie and it really got to me. The movie was overall very good. You can’t top the joker.. that being said.. it’s a solid movie.

  9. eli

    July 23, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    you’re actually an idiot and apparently didn’t pay attention to the movie AT ALL. Whether you saw it or not EVERYTHING was given it’s explanation. oh and the way you’re complaining that there was so much that you didn’t need to know…that was the explanation of stuff you needed to know to connect it all numbnut. this movie was masterfully executed and an amazing trilogy all together. the nolan brothers have left a mark in history that no film maker will be able to touch. they have an artistic talent that doesn’t exist in the movie industry anymore. all you were looking for was an action packed mess which is what your subconcious let you see. don’t write reviews unless you actually have some decent criticism. by the way it’s probly your bed time as im sure you’re a twelve year old writing this from mom’s house…numbnut

  10. Mike

    July 23, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    You still can’t think of any flaws in The Dark Knight after four years? It had plotting just as dubious as anything in TDKR (did the Joker mean to get captured in the middle of the movie, or not, and how did he know he would, etc?) and much worse pacing. By the time Two-Face goes on his killing streak it feels like the climax should’ve already happened and you’re watching a different movie.

  11. ctwins3644

    July 23, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    I actually thought the money in a mattress quote was necessary, bc it led to the head of the stock exchange to mention that the money will be worth a lot less if the stock market crashes. Supply and demand would stay the same, but with a crash, people would pull their money out of banks resulting in some default, and the fed would print more money. New money lowers the value of money in circulation because there is more of it without a higher demand for tangible goods, therefor the dollars purchasing power would be less. We know that Bane was only there to bankrupt Wayne, but at the time no one knew what he was doing. This helps to explain the economic effects of what he was doing, and is vital to the plot and story. (It is important to note that had this happened in real life, the markets would simply reverse the fraudulent transactions and prevent Bane’s economic plan from coming to fruition.)

  12. James

    July 23, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Hmm…..Good points for the most part. The editing mess with Miranda Tate was really annoying, it actually started to make me think that there were two female characters and that I had conflated them into one. I thought briefly that she was the real villain when she was pleading to turn the reactor on, but then I dropped that, so I didn’t think that twist was that obvious (and I usually do see those things coming a mile away.)

    I thought Bane’s voice was annoying — both too clear, coming from a PA system rather than him, and frequently unintelligible to boot. Plus, his facial furniture meant that he could never move his jaw while “talking,” which means that he wasn’t talking. Just do this: hold your jaws shut and try to say: “I was born in the shadows.” Doesn’t work too well.

    I have also hated Chrisian Bale’s voice as Batman. Always seemed hokey and like a ten-year-old kid trying to sound like Charles Bronson or Darth Vader.

    And yes, Blake/Robin’s recognizing Batman from “that look in your eyes.” puh-leez. Not only was it sappy, but Blake could see that look in his eyes through the rubber cowl and five Maybelline pencils worth of black eye make-up? Nice try. What’s so weird is that the Boy Wonder was always good at figuring out puzzles, so why they passed up on this (and several other opportunities, btw) to let him demonstrate this strength seems like a weird omission.

    One thing I did like that was kind of subtle, was that all five major characters — Catwoman, Batman, Robin, Bane and Miranda — were orphans. Or am I wrong?

  13. Conor

    July 23, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    I agree with the criticism. The movie was fun, and cool to watch. I didn’t much like how bane was done though. I thought he sounded like an old man. Deckard Cain from Diablo anyone? I couldn’t take his voice seriously. Lastly? A lot of Bane’s fist fights were kind of sub-par. They reminded me of Kevin Sorbo in the amazing hercules. A good movie all around, but the voice, fight choreography and the villains were lacking in my opinion.

  14. matt b

    July 23, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    I respectfully disagree with most all of your qualms with TDKR. First, Bane’s voice was great and that discussion should be left alone. Period. Next, your comment about the dialogue is pointless, the reason Blake made the point about hope with the children was so you could continue to see, as shown through other character building through the movie, that he is similar to Wayne and the ideals of the Batman (e.g., hope, honesty, etc.). Next, the reason Alfred was portrayed the way he was is based simply on the events of TDK, Alfred supports/supported Wayne in his endeavors as the Batman to the point that he didn’t want Wayne to give up Batman towards the end of TDK; however, after Wayne made his choice to brand the Batman an enemy for the good of Gotham, Alfred then began to see, after 8 years, that Wayne’s role in the protection of Gotham was more geared towards Wayne’s knowledge and resources. And, yes, he knew that Wayne would probably die a needless death, in Alfred’s eyes, if he chose to become the Batman again. Next, as far as the prison goes, the location was merely a detail that was not important to the story. The overally point there is that Bane, while obviously being a prisoner there once, knows that this is the best place to exile the Batman. Also considering that Bane now has a “small fortune” from Dagget, he could very easily fly the Batman to wherever this prison is located in the world and leave him for dead (i.e., not a crucial detail to the story). As far as Wayne escaping and returning to Gotham… he’s the Batman as well as Bruce Wayne, he most likely has the intelligence and means to find out where he was and get back to Gotham and find a way to sneak back into the city (i.e., also not a crucial detail considering his skills as a former member of the league of shadows). Next, specifically in the editing dept. where you complain about the scene in the courtroom in which Bane takes aside Tate and then suddenly she’s back in the room with Lucius and Wayne, it’s likely played out in this way… Bane knew that nobody else knows her true role in Gotham’s revolution so by taking her aside, he likely gave her the detonator if she didn’t already have it, and then released her to be treated as any other prisoner as not to raise attention… this is just my theory as I have forgotten small details from the scene frame by frame. Next, the writing, which I was very pleased with actually. In the scene in which Blake deduces that Wayne is the Batman, I sum it up as the movie itslef lays it out for the viewer to see… Blake is obviously young, as he mentions that he’s just a kid when he sees Wayne get out of his “fancy sports car… pretty girl on his arm” and then see the “look” on Wayne’s face, the same look that Blake has on his face when the story of his orphan life is established. One: it builds and emotional connection to Blake as well as set him up for what he becomes in the end. Two: it shows that eight years ago, when Reece claims to know who the Batman really is, Blake would’ve been too young at the time/you’re looking too hard into that detail to say that that’s how Blake should’ve deduced who the Batman really is. It’s supposed to be implied that Blake figured it out based on his connection to Wayne’s character and going on from there. Finally, with the reveal of Tate’s true identity, although I expected it because I know the Batman comics fairly well enough to know that Ra’s al Ghul only had a daughter, I felt it was done well. It wasn’t meant to show that Bane was just working for some woman. It was more to show that Bane, a formidable and intelligent opposition to the Batman, was leading the show with the help of Ra’s al Ghul’s daughter and allowing her to work the plan basically from the inside as a “regular” citizen. I never once felt that Bane was just a “dog on a leash”, I saw him as one of many villains in a larger plan because in Nolan’s more realistic Batman universe, having one “supervillain” doesn’t make sense but rather having Bane as the villain you’re sure of and Talia as the villain you don’t know about. I can understand somewhat the other side of the “dog on a lease” claim in the sense that when Talia is revealed Bane is less important, but I saw that as literally he’s about to die because of his mask and he is revealed to have an emotional side because of the true prison story that Talia tells about Bane saving her… Moving backwards for a moment, the problem with the Batman somehow coming back to beat bane even after his back being broken and this time besting Bane was never an issue for me becasue… In the second fight, Batman has clearly focused his mind from just beating Bane up because now he knows whats at stake – mental state is better – as well as Batman literally breaking Bane’s mask causing Bane to experience excruciating pain being unable to fight – no problems there…
    These are merely my perceptions of the movie – I sometimes tend to overanalyze details like I feel you have here, but in this case I feel everything was done for a reason. Besides, this is just my opinion as yours is yours, which I have no problems with, I just wanted to try and help fix some of your problems with what I feel was done in this movie.

  15. matt b

    July 23, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    One more point about the second Bane/Bat fight… Batman clearly figured out his pitfall in the pit… no pun intended… leaving Bruce with a heightened sense of what he needs to do to defeat Bane.

  16. Max

    July 23, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    With regards to your comment about how it was possible for Batman to recover from his broken back and still fight Bane, I propose the following arguments –

    1. From what I saw in that fight between Batman and Bane when Bats was back, it sure didn’t look like Batman was winning to me. After all, Catwoman had to take Bane down by shooting him with the batpod. But I guess you could argue that shoulda struggled more…which brings me to my main argument.

    2. I feel like you missed an important moment when Bruce was trying to escape from his prison. He tries twice and fails. And then the blind physician there suggests that Batman has lost his fear of dying, and without that desperate will to live, he may not be able to overcome the obstacles he faces. Bruce then proceeds to climb the wall without a harness and succeeds. I argue that he found that desperate instinct to survive on that climb, that instinct that drive you to do things that you normally couldnt….including facing up to Bane again.

    Btw, this list was a fun read but these are, as you said, nitpicks. They definitely did not prevent me from enjoying the film. And if these are your primary criticisms of this film, then I would argue that they did pretty good.

  17. Melanie

    July 23, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    I think you’re being overly critical. Regarding the second fight between Batman and Bane, my take on it was that Bruce was in better physical shape than during the first fight and the key was when Batman hit Bane in the face and the hose with the gas was knocked out of whack Bane was overcome by the pain and started to lose focus. That’s just my take.

  18. Mike Peterson

    July 23, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    I have to say I loved Bane’s voice too. I thought the score could have been just a tad bit lower, lol.

    My issue with the film was two things- one, Batman should have died delivering the bomb. Two, how do we realize John Blake may be “Robin”? It was his name the entire time, we just didn’t know that until the end. Lame. They didn’t have to do that at all,

    But rather could have been the next Batman/Nightwing/Red Robin, whatever. It’s a perfect spin-off franchise.

  19. Jonathan

    July 23, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Bane deserved a much better send off than he received in the film. Rip off the mask or something, damn.

  20. Carey

    July 23, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    Lot of good points.
    Think on the Harvey Dent note you missed a few things. It clearly shows Gordan have the note and then put it back in his pocket on Harvey Dent Day, then shortly after when Gordan gets abducted underground they show Bane take the note. So wasn’t like he just walked around with it.

  21. Luke Ryan Baldock

    July 23, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    It wasn’t so much about where the pit was, but that the film didn’t create a sense of distance. Bane and Bruce Wayne just seem to appear there when the plot necessitates it.

    As for the fights with Bane I understand completely what they were going for, but just felt they needed more of a threat that perhaps Batman wouldn’t win. If I remember the comics (mostly Knightfall) correctly, then Batman didn’t face off against Bane after he was broken. It was Jean Paul Valley in his armour that managed to break Bane. And Bruce’s recuperation also consisted of intense training by Lady Shiva, not just a few push ups in a prison.

    Bane was so ferocious in that first fight, I wanted him to be more of a threat in the finale.

  22. Krista

    July 23, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    I got the same sense about Bane’s voice at times…thinking “hmm sounds more like studio work, than coming directly from him..” yet that didn’t prevent me from liking his character. I loved Bane, and thought they did a great job…and I even liked the voice, if it had only sounded like it came from him a bit more…and I’m guessing that’s a sound mixing issue. That was really my only gripe…I didn’t see a problem with Alfred at all.

    Also, call me a derp, but Miranda wasn’t obvious to me at all…although given that she didn’t serve much of a purpose in the movie, and she was a love interest-ish type..I guess maybe it was obvious as far as movie plots tend to go. My friend didn’t see it coming either.

    Dialogue didn’t bother me at all…and the lazy writing, eh…most movies take shortcuts…it’s just about suspending disbelief and assuming it some how all worked out to be that way…what? :) lol

  23. Krista

    July 23, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Another small note….how the eff did Bane eat? Just saying.

  24. Matthew

    July 23, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Great article. I can forgive some libertys taken in the film but some of the “handy” plot devices are ridiculous. I have to agree with Melanie though and the mask attacks and I also think batmans strength was also he realised he didn’t wanna die and the relisation that if he didn’t defeat Bane Gotham would be destroyed.

  25. Joe

    July 23, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Some points I agree with you, but I think you’re being overly critical. The reason why Batman beat Bane in the second fight is because he was in that prison for almost 4 months, more than enough time to heal injuries and enough time to get in shape. Most important though was batman’s mental strength, which was far superior of bane’s. Bane may have been weakened when he saw Batman had returned…True nobody knows where the prison was but I don’t think anybody was teleporting from spot to spot. I just don’t think Nolan had enough time to show those things. Sure the betrayal by Miranda was not the most emotional but it certainly did not expect her to be the one to literally stab Batman in the back.

    I do agree with Chris Wharfe’s comment above.

  26. Jared

    July 23, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    I would agree with some of these points, especially the editing point. I was also confused by the way that sequence was cut.

    I translated the second fight between Bane and Wayne as Bruce being in better condition than the first time around and the damage done to Bane’s mask during the fight.

    The other detail that bothered me was the random “Robin” reference thrown in at the end. Nolan has explicitly stated he was going to leave Robin out of these films. Seriously?

  27. shaun

    July 23, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    As a sound engineer, Banes voice definitely felt dominant over the rest of the audio, but I liked his take on the character. Spoiler…did anyone like like how John Blake revealed himself as “Robin”? I would’ve preferred Dick Grayson…less cheesy

  28. Atta

    July 23, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    How bout the fact that Bruce Wayne can actually successfully stay in hiding? I mean, the dude is supposed to be a famous billionaire, you can’t exactly go out in the open in France or wherever and still not get noticed. It’d be like Donald Trump faking his death, i’m pretty sure people in other countries know what he looks like.

  29. Matthew

    July 23, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    This movie only had about 25 minutes of actual batman in it. Out of 2 hours and 45 minutes, I felt ripped off. About 90 minutes into it, I was getting annoyed that he was missing from the movie. This was a great Bane move or League of Shadows movie but it was barely a Batman movie.

  30. tmekt

    July 23, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    I always get so angry when reading texts like this. It’s like you’ve spent the entire time you were in theater to look for continuity errors and tiniest bits of downsides. I get angry because, well, most of the errors usually aren’t errors at all. They just seem that way to you because you didn’t have time to use your brains (it’s not like the movie was too intelligent lol).

    Anyways, I hope I didn’t sound too fanboy-ish. :D For me the movie was kind of disappointment, plot was too complex in terms of the number of things happening. Could’ve used a lot of condensing.

  31. Brian

    July 23, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    He was able to beat bane because he escaped from the prison so his spirit was stronger and gave him more edge. Plus he wasn’t going to welcome death. I do agree with the Talia twist criticism. It was dumb and ruined the movie for me. She was an unnecessary character since they barely had her in it.

  32. dan

    July 23, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    this is terrible. not one of your points are any good.

  33. Andy

    July 23, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    The pit is in West Africa… Alfred mentions that in an opening dialog.

  34. Cory Curmudgeon

    July 23, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    I don’t get how you can pinpoint all of those flaws so accurately and still end with “I think its a good film.” It’s not a good film. It’s a steaming pile of pretentious dog-crap. It’s as Nolan set out to make the most confusing, obnoxious turd of a movie he could just to see how many people still said it was good. Dear lord. I need an aspirin.

  35. SexBot14

    July 23, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    I think batman had more will to beat him the second time, like there was more urgency, if he didn’t beat him Gotham was gone.

  36. Jeremy

    July 23, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Wow. You hit the nail right on the head. Those are exactly all the things that annoyed me as well when I walked out of the cinema. It was just “But…, but…, but…”
    To any =one who says your points are not good, they clearly have been blinded by some glamour Warner Bros has cast over the world. I liked the previous movies; I had high expectations for this one. Nolan is a good director, but he really let us down for exactly the points you’ve made above.
    How come none of these issues were present in The Dark Knight? How did the writing get so lazy?

  37. Alex

    July 23, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    1) His voice resonated power. It was going to be loud because Bane is a loud person. I will admit it was a little bit in your ear though. BTW obnoxious score? I thought it was perfect

    2)Nolan did kind of throw that at our face. IF he wanted it to be subtext then he should have made Blake give a discouraged look when the kids where going to get on the bus.

    3)Alfred was upset because he was afraid that Bruce was going to die. He hasn’t been in action or even very social for eight years. Why should he think that Bruce could take on a many who’s been killing people for a hobby and is a physical superior to Batman? He was afraid for Bruce and when Bruce “died” It’s hard not to cry when someone you loves gets blown up by a nuclear bomb.

    4)Even though he had a broken back, which was fixed, Batman fought with intelligence the second time. He was arrogant when he first heard about Bane saying, “I’ll just fight harder.” Then he got his ass whooped. It was too late for him to realize he made a mistake. Now that he’s fought Bane and knows his style and knows Bane is to proud to think he can lose, he used it against him by getting Bane angry by getting a couple good licks off of him and even fucking up his mask. Bane started to go crazy because if Batman got another good punch while his mask was broken then he would get seriously hurt. He didn’t want to die so he got to reckless to be careful. It even showed that by him punching the pillar after Batman slipped out of it. In fact he punched it twice after Batman slipped out.

    5)Knowing Wayne, he probably hitched a ride to Gotham and sneaked past the guards using his skills of stealth. Bane got there pretty quick the first time, a plane perhaps?

    6) The editing was a mix up for sure. Maybe Bane just wanted to talk to her about the plan and let her go and then asked for her back again but that is highly unlikely. But you don’t need much explanation that a character is dead or even how he died. You just know he died and that should be enough

    7)I’m pretty sure he realized what the rest of Gotham did not. Batman has all these toys that would cost millions of dollars. Who’s the one person who has millions of dollars and could throw it away easily that cares about what happens in Gotham? Bruce Wayne of course. But the seeing that in his eyes thing was put in there to add a sense of drama to it.

    8)Did Bane not organize an entire army by himself? Did Bane not crash a plan with him on it and survive through his planning? Did Bane not trap nearly the entire police force underground through his planning? Bane did nearly 3/4 of all of that stuff by himself. Talia just had the bomb idea. And Bruce in his time of need was looking for somebody to love. He found Miranda Tate, the only person who was interested in more than just his money.

    You make some valid points but sometimes the answer is as simple as this: He’s Batman.

  38. Austin

    July 23, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    If the pits are in West Africa then how does Bruce get to Gotham in under a day without any money or technology?

  39. Craig

    July 23, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Totally agree with all of this 100%.

    I would add Bruce not being Batman for 8 years to this list. I mean, yes he was prepared to hang up the cape and cowl at the end of the last movie in order to have a life with Rachel. However, with her death, he had no reason to give it up and every reason to continue the fight. Who cares that he was targeted as a criminal by the police, that’s part of who he’s been for the last few decades. For him to abandon Batman and become a recluse just sat super wrong with me, didn’t make any sense with who Bruce or Batman is. I understand that Gotham “got cleaned up,” but let it be 8 years since the last movie but only 2-3 years without Batman and freakin keep Bruce involved in his business.

  40. Scpetit

    July 23, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    The Dark Knight Rises…..

    A pretty cool James Bond-esque plane hijacking which is our first introduction to Bane. Even though he sounds like a SNL Sean Connery skit he is still pretty cool so far.

    Flash forward to Wayne Manor and it is Harvey Dent Day. Everyone celebrating Gothams hero and the founder of the no parole for scumbags act. Commissioner Gordon wants to tell everyone the truth 8 years later but just cant seem to get it out still.

    Introduce pointless character #01: Foley (Matthew Modine). I mean he is there to tell us that Gordon’s family left him and since the city is paradise now and crime free we are gonna have to fire you. A great revelation? no just pointless information that never ends up meaning anything throough the rest of the movie.

    Introduce pointless character #02: Miranda Tate (Marion Cotillard). She wants to see Bruce for some big project but Alfred will have none of that and tells her to pretty much piss off.

    Now we finally get to see Bruce Wayne..but he is a crippled recluse who no one has seen in years…why? what happened he hasn’t been fighting crime in 8 years or going out? WHY WHY WHY? Why would Batman be that upset over Rachel’s death 8 YEARS AGO STILL?? doesn’t really work for me.

    Now onto Catwoman aka Selina Kyle. Anne Hathaway actually pulled it off very well I thought with what little background of her Nolan gave us. Ok so Selina Kyle is gonna steal some pearls from Bruce’s mom for some reason but also needs to get his fingerprints off the mysterious safe that she so conviently finds for another part of the story. Bruce and he have a little chat together and she sweeps the leg Karate Kid style and jumps out the window.

    Bruce of course wants to know who she is so hits the rebuilt brand spanking new batcave (I thought he was retired for 8years) so we can finally see Bruce do some detective work. Enter Alfred and his regurgitated monologue ” blah blah stop doing it blah blah find a family” which tells you right there this scene will be at the end of the movie. Subtlety may now be Nolans strong suit.

    Back to Selina and the fingerprints. She takes them to Dagger (pointless character #02) who happens to be working with Bane and they want to make Bruce Wayne lose all his money so they can take over Wayne Enterprises. Selina is double crossed of course and doesnt get her character wipe device or whatever it was called but she does trick Daggett into calling the cops who show up instantly at the bar geesh.

    During all this action for some reason people want to go in the sewer and the lead veteran Commissioner heads the search. Gordon is caught and taken to Bane who hates that they brought a cop and starts snappin necks. Gordon doesn’t like the looks of this and rolls off into the sewer to escape and luckily the omnipotent John Blake (Joseph Gordon Levitt) runs to the exact tunnel where the commissioner comes out!

    Amazing!!! how did he know you ask? BECUASE HE IS A CLAIRVOYANT! He knows Bruce Wayne is Batman because they are both orphans and he can read his face…yeppp that simple I read your face Bruce. oh and we need Batman back asap.

    Ok so Bruce has to find the sexy Selina Kyle and Miranda tate’s little Swarry. Bruce dances with Selina and really wants his pearls back even thought they look better on her than his mother. That’s ok because Selina steals the Lamborghini. I say that is fair!

    Bruce ( aka James Bond ) visits Wayne Enterprises to talk to Lucius Fox ( aka Q ) and run through the 50 year old formula of show me what weapons you have today. We get a look at “The Bat” which has auto pilot and anyone can drive because Fox takes it out for a spin when traffic is heavy. He also needs to talk to Lucius about the McGuffin Device (or nuclear Reactor) which we will see later in the movie.

    Bruce goes back to the Batcave to do a little more detective work but Alfred already looked up Bane on wikipediaand spoonfeeds Bruce and the audience Bane’s entire backstory in a monologue. Nice! Alfred knows Banes info and his motivations like he raised him instad of Bruce.

    Move the story along. Bane and his scrubs attack the Gotham Stock Exchange and can bankrupt Bruce Wayne with his fingerprints. And it works! And no one can put 2+2 together to see hmmm… Stock exchanged robbed…Wayne is broke that same day. Surely this woudn’t be a coincidence? Let’s just instantly bankrupt him with no investigation.

    The chase scene and finally we get to see BATMAN! FINALLY! Ok it was pretty neat to see the hostages strapped to the back of the motorcycles. New and fresh and very thrilling but as the cops are chasing them they really want to say “Shoot the tires out of the motorcycle!”REALLY? Why don’y you just shoot the hostage Keanu Reeves style and save yourself some time.

    Enter The Batman on his Batpod..and he just drives it around and Foley who was chasing Bane now says screw it lets get the Batman now so all the cops stop chasing the big group of Bane and his killers and the whole city converges on Batman and chases him to a dark alley. Ok Batman you are surrounded! Nope not quite he has “the Bat” and flies off free.

    Head back to Wayne Manor and Alfred tries one more time to stop Bruce and tells him “I destroyed the letter, She didnt want you Bruce”. That’s harsh and Alfred has another monologue and some tears again. Bruce really does nothing and Alfred quits. Oh well.

    Back to Bruce’s fortunes. Lucius tells Bruce he is broke and he should make plans for some unknown chick Miranda Tate to take over his company. Why couldn’t Lucius take it over? just hand it over to some chick you don’t even know? Oh and while your at it show her the McGuffin Device and tell her it can be easily turned into a nuclear device that sits in the basement.

    Miranda loves it and like a high priced hooker heads to Wayne Manor with Bruce and gets their freak on.

    After finally getting some action after 8 years and hornier than ever he decided to search out Catwoman (I know I would) and track down Bane. Batman meets Catwoman and she conviently takes him to Bane (is she a clairvoyant also?) in the sewers. Batman is locked in the cage with Bane. Bane screams hello Bruce Wayne or whatever and the only thing missing is Michael Buffers “Let’s get ready to Rummble!!” Bane curbstomps Batman and breaks his back effortlessly.

    Meanwhile the city decides to send the entire police force (over 3000 cops) into the sewers to look for Bane and his crew. Sound stupid? well that is because it is stupid. Bane (The clairvoyant #03) knew this and booby traps the entire city sewer system to trap all the cops like rats and blow every bridge but one in the city along with the Pittsburgh I mean Gotham Steelers team except Hines Ward.

    Bane also tells everyone there is an atomic bomb (which you can make McGuyver style in under 2 minutes) and it will blow up if anyone enters or leaves Gotham. Sounds easy enough. This should make everyone get on the Bane bandwagon right? But it does work. everyone stays in there homes, no one goes to work the streets are empty not even a bum or cab driver to be seen. Somehow Bane’s ragtag group of thugs can keep tabs on the entire city FANTASTIC!A horribly stupid plot point.

    In the meantime Bane takes the time to drop off Bruce in the Lazarus Pit somewhere in China and wants to give Gothams people a little hope before he nukes em. So he leaves Bruce in the pit with Cable TV and some Doritos.

    Bane jets back to Gotham grabs a megaphone and starts preaching to the people og Gotham. Pulls out the letter from Gordon earlier in the film. Which how did he get that? and tells the people that Dent was a bad bad man. yes you can trust Bane, the man you is gonna blow up your city, destroyed 2 professional football teams,trapped all the police in the sewers right and realesed every hardened crimal in the city to roam the streets!!!! I mean Dent is the bad man not Bane trust me! this is utterly stupid

    John Blake is made that Gordon didn’t come clean on Dent (maybe Blake isn’t a clairvoyant after all) and that’s that. It’s John Blake Begins now and he will save the city. Well save the one bus with orphans that’s all.

    Back in the pit Bruce gets his back fixed by tying him up with some rope and punching him in the back. Obamacare for the win. Three minutes later (or Three Months in Batman time) Bruce is back to working out. Woulda been nice to see a Bob Harper cameo there. Bruce tries to escape the pit with the people chanting Im O tep or whatever and of course the third time is always the charm. Bruce gets out and what the hellwhere am i? I am broke in the middle of China and I gotta get back home. Maybe he had George Clooneys Batcard and charged his way back to Gotham. Never Leave Home Without It

    Ok so he gets back to Gotham and guess what? He shows up at exactly the precise place where Selina Kyle is and asks the person that robbed him, bankrupted him and pretty much helped destroy Gotham for her help. REALLY? I know she is hot and all but come on you didn’t even hit it yet!

    Meanwhile the Scarecrow is judge, jury and executioner and send people to walk over the ice to their deaths. Well as Gordon and his men are walking to their deaths guess who shows up at the exact place? Batman!. Luckily with his heavy armor he knows where all the spots are to walk on the ice so no problem. Batman tosses Gordon a hot flare for some reason and tells him to light it. Don’t worry it won’t melt any of the ice and it starts a trail of fire to a huge Batman logo (ala the Crow or Daredevil). So much for surprising the bad guys now Bats.

    Cue the loud ass music again.

    Batman conviently finds Blake now and tells him to wear a mask. Nice way to tell us the ending already again.

    So the cops get free and no one has a beard after 3+ months and everyone is in perfect health ready to fight. Foley now is a good guy and leads the charge Braveheart style. The unarmed cops (why are they unarmed didnt they not take their guns in the sewer with them?) and charge the machine gun wielding bad guys and of course just like stormtroopers the bad guys can’t hit shit. They run our of bullets and just like Big Trouble IN little china a melee breaks out.

    Batman makes his way through chaos to the city steps and queue the music walks right up to Bane.

    Batman the cunning fighter he is realized hey maybe I should punch the mask this time around and see what it will do to him. Bane (aka Vader) cannot breath now and Batman triumphs. Batman is his awesome voice repeatedly says WHERES THE TRIGGER>>WHERES THE TRIGGER>>>WHERE IS IT???? lol ok ok

    But wait! here is the twist! Miranda stabs Batman in the back and reveals her true identity and plan, and history of Bane to the stunned Batman who just lies there (mind you a bomb is about to go off somewhere but hey continue Miranda you are doing well). But never fear Gordon finds the truck and plants the EMP device or whatever and the day is saved!

    Miranda (aka Talia) leaves Bane to finish off Batman to try to find the bomb but perfect time Catwoman finds Batman this time YAAAHAH and blasts Bane with the Batpod. NOOOOOOOOO Bane went out like a punk that’s it a plain old henchman’s death for you Bane.

    Now Batman with a severe knife wound shrugs it off Hulk Hogan style and tracks down Talia with “The Bat” along with Catwoman and they shootdown Talia and she crashes the truck and starts the standard death monologue. But what of the bomb? hold on hold..let her finish her speech dammit the bomb can wait!

    Ok Batman looks at his watch. Oh shit I got less that 2 minutes to get this bomb outta here. So lets chain is to “The Bat” and drag it
    along the city streets dont worry it won’t detonate that way and take it out to sea.

    Boom The city is saved, Batman is the hero again…albeit dead (well not really)

    Back to Wayne Manor for some more Alfred crying and a monologue.

    Let’s turn Wayne Manor into an orphanage, give Batman a Rocky type statue, find out John Blake’s real name is Robin which the secretary really likes and we get to see Alfred dream monologue come to life ohhh I didn’t see that coming at all.

    Lastly Blake finds the Batcave signaling he is the new Batman with no training, no money no nothing.

    The End

  41. Nik

    July 23, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    Mate you are spot on with your analysis. I mean the movie had some really great bits, some obscenely bad parts and left so many unanswered questions; like why call him “Robin” John Blake, why not just say that his real name was Richard Grayson or something at the end, why Robin? And then does that mean “Robin” will be Robin, Nightwing or Batman?? He completely messed up the ending in my views just to make a feel good ending. I also thought the whole Catwoman angle was unnecessary, I mean she really didnt add anything to the movie, as she wasnt anything as cynical and mischeivious as the comics which really was a let down. Last thing which irritated me was that the Dark Knight was about the characters in the comics, and the movie was carried by the brilliance of Heath Leadger as the Joker. He was the Joker and the movie focused on him the way it should, and pushed other characters out of focus making it Batman Vs Joker. The Dark Knight Rises is soap opera where everyone is at war with everyone else, I just thought Nolan got lazy and bored, and should have put in more effort in his movie. I just hope he doesnt become an english version of M. Night Shymalalalalaalalalalama….. Peace

  42. Matthew Rushing

    July 23, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    I am sorry I loved this film and thought that it was the best of them all.

  43. Joe

    July 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    I agree with most of your points as I noticed some of them too while I was watching the movie. A few other things I did not get, maybe I just missed something. After they left the stock market it was light outside, only a few minutes after the closing bell. They then sped through a tunnel and all of a sudden it was dark outside? It also seemed like it would take a lot of time to leave the prison and get to Gotham, like you mentioned, and there seemed to be little time left. When did he find time to rig the bridge to make a blazing bat signal? And lastly was there a point in Catwoman opening the tunnel? It did not seem like anyone was going through it or even knew it was opened.

  44. Joe

    July 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Also noticed the part with Miranda – Bane – Batman – “Miranda, I will come back for you…” 2 sec elapse – Where’s Miranda?

    Bad.

  45. Justin

    July 23, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    The only one I agree is a problem is the last one… but on repeat viewings it’s actually much better.

    This line did crack me up though: “I’m releasing the prisoners now. That is all.”

  46. Ace

    July 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    While most of your gripes didn’t bother me, and in fact I liked Alfred’s emotion, my main two gripes do coincide with two of yours — it is clear by the scenery once Bruce gets out of the pit that it is in a foreign land, so it’s ridiculous how Wayne just reappears on Gotham Island suddenly, and like you say, just happens upon Catwoman when he needs her to get him to Lucius.

    Secondly, I also was confused by the poor editing of Gordon’s trial, Bane’s summons of Tate, then she’s w Wayne, then Bane took her … all over the place.

    Actually, another thing that bothered me was the lack of addressing Bane’s mask! So, no body took him seriously until he put on the mask … ok, so it’s just an aesthetic thing? Oh, it helps keep the pain at bay … ok, how? Is it feeding him special gas? Where is that gas coming from/contained? Is it the gas that gives him his incredible strength (to crush holes in concrete pillars and not even flinch)? Whereas the author of the article desired a little less explanation in parts, I would have liked a little more about his mask and his super abilities.

  47. Brandon

    July 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Any one get annoyed that Bane was the films major villain and yet he gets quickly blown off screen by catwoman. I felt like he would get up Jason/Freddy style and have an EPIC death. That was dissapointing.

  48. Luke

    July 23, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    I totally agree with your comment on Bain’s voice. I legitimately was thinking the whole time, “oh man, this is WAY over-corrected”!

  49. jonathan

    July 24, 2012 at 12:54 am

    I think the movie was great in so many ways. Yes it had holes and some plot issues but Nolan kept me interested and excited throughout.

    1. Issue i had with the movie. Batman gives Blake a little grenade like bomb to blow a whole…. Blake throws it and it doesn’t have enough power… then Batman flies in on the Bat-wing, and blows a whole in the concrete. Then Batman immediately arrives talking to Blake again. I don’t know about you but i would have been fine with Batman talking to Blake then blowing the whole.

  50. Battleground270

    July 24, 2012 at 1:36 am

    I should have stopped reading at “Hans Zimmer’s obnoxious score”…

    … but I didn’t. First of all, I’ll say that the score is fantastic. Second, while some of your criticisms are valid (how could the prison be out of the country if it was so much trouble for bane to even get IN the country, Bane’s voice, and, in that one instance with Blake, lazy writing), I think most of them are an attempt to completely nitpick anything and everything in the film.

    On your point about Talia, I think only extremely hardcore Batman fans saw that twist coming. Let me be clear, I had been reading for months that Miranda Tate could possibly be Talia Al Ghul, but after the first 2 hours of the film, I was all but convinced that she wasn’t. I can guarantee all of my friends had no clue it was coming.

    Seriously though, I lost almost all respect for your opinion after you trashed the score.

  51. Forrest

    July 24, 2012 at 2:26 am

    I almost completely agree with all your points. I take more issue with Bruce’s seclusion, though. The end of TDK didn’t end on an upbeat tone; however, it did seem much more hopeful than how TDKR started. TDK led the audience to believe that Batman would still be a force in Gotham. Come to find out: Bruce has totally abandoned his role as Batman. Seemingly over time, he’s even developed more disappointment concerning the death of Rachel. What happened between movies?

    Also, while I can understand the one time fling/love scene with Miranda Tate. I feel the film did a terrible job of establishing that the two had any emotional connection. All of the sudden, his actions are influenced for his concern with Tate’s safety.

  52. Ash

    July 24, 2012 at 4:42 am

    The prison is in India. To be excat Jodpur. Both the prison and the castle. It was the same location that was used in movie “The Fall”

    http://www.neatorama.com/2011/01/30/jodhpur-the-blue-city-of-india/

    So technically the Bat needs to take bus to a major city and than airport than endure a long haul flight. Not sure Gotham has direct flight…so its pretty much lengthy…but hey he is a Wayne even though he is bankrupt he might have unused miles…

  53. ronald

    July 24, 2012 at 5:31 am

    I agree mostly on the timing of things, but everything else about the movie I liked.

    1) I thought it was paced poorly to start. The first 40 minutes or so was slow…and then when Batman and Bane had their first fight it picked up and the rest of the movie was epic

    2) Here were my major scene problems. The two everyone has been mentioning about Bruce coming back form India, and Miranda at the sentencing hearing…

    However, the big one that didnt make sense for me was, when Gordon was sent to “death by exile,” Batman came and saved him and they lit up the flare. At the same time, Blake was releasing the cops from underground and Batman also saves him. That all happened way too quickly and simultaneously for me.

    Also, which wasn’t mentioned, the timing left on the bomb. It felt like Lucious said 23 days, then 5 minutes in the movie past and all of sudden Gordon was saying there was only 12 hours left til it blew. Tack on to that after Miranda touches the trigger there are 11 minutes left and they go through like a 20 minute chase scene. Didn’t make sense. I would have been ok with that if when Miranda touched the trigger they said “You just bought gotham 40 minutes,” but 11 was not enough time to lead them through chase.

    3) 1 last thing no one mentioned. Found it hard to believe that Gordon didnt realize Bruce was Batman until he was flying the bomb over the ocean.

  54. C Money

    July 24, 2012 at 7:37 am

    I can answer a few things about the speculations that some of them may have. The only one I’m questionable on is the sentencing part. That may have been edited out of order, but I don’t remember the scene correctly.

    The prison thing is easily explained. Right before Bruce Wayne makes his escape from the prison, you hear Lucius Fox say 23 days left for the bomb to blow up. When Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham, there’s only hours left. So it obviously took him a little over a couple of weeks to get back.

    In the comic book, Bruce Wayne’s back is broken. However, Nolan’s movie claims that he “dislocated” a disk, which is not a broken back and can be treated faster than an actual fracture in the spine.

    And Batman didn’t care to die in the first fight, hence not going to fight as hard or even put forth an effort as you would if you actually cared of dying. Bane even tells him that he doesn’t fear death, but he actually “welcomes death.” The last fight, Batman knows that the anesthetic going into Bain keeps in from feeling any pain. Try punching someone under a drug that completely numbs your neurons and see how far that will get you.

    Score was incredible, stupid statement.

    Bane’s voice was easily recognizable. However, if it wasn’t, we’d have people on here complaining how it was too distorted and we couldn’t understand him. I personally liked the voice, it showed his intelligence and his wit while being completely horrific and uncaring about other people.

    Bane could enter in the city anytime he wanted. He did it before and would have no problem doing it again.

  55. Sam Carey

    July 24, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Watched it last night. Agree with all of your points, apart from the score, but it’s a comic book film. I know Nolan has taken pride in setting these films in reality but they ain’t real and they shouldn’t be taken as so.

    All about when Bane says ‘lovely, lovely voice’ about the kid singing!!!

  56. Luke Ryan Baldock

    July 24, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    I agree the score is fantastic. But when I call it obnoxious I mean it is overused and too distracting. The best scene for me was the first fight with Bane because it had no music. Nolan is too reliant on the score to try and produce some coherence between long jumps in distance and time.

    Before The Dark Knight came out they released the scene of Joker crashing the Harvey Dent fund raiser. This version had no music and it was stunning. When I saw the finished film the music really detracted from the power of that scene.

    To me, the constant music makes it seem as though I am watching one long trailer.

  57. Zllevin

    July 24, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    One thing you also forgot to mention was the bomb. How clumsy can you be with such an unstable piece of fusion energy thats core is about to destroy the city?

  58. James

    July 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Hmm…..Good points for the most part. The editing mess with Miranda Tate was really annoying, it actually started to make me think that there were two female characters and that I had conflated them into one. I thought briefly that she was the real villain when she was pleading with Bruce to turn the reactor on, but then I dropped that, so I didn’t think that twist was that obvious (and I usually do see those things coming a mile away.) I also did think that the unveiling of her the villain could have been sharpened just a bit, so that it was clear that she had been planning this for YEARS, coming to New York, setting up shop as a socialite/philanthropist, even helping Bruce fund the reactor, knowing that she would use it one day as a bomb. Obviously, she masterminded the entire thing, but they could have laid it out a bit more, really rubbed his nose in the fact that the two of them built the bomb together.

    I thought Bane’s voice was annoying — both too clear, coming from a PA system rather than him, and yet frequently unintelligible to boot. Plus, his facial furniture meant that he could never move his jaw while “talking,” which means that he wasn’t talking. Just do this: hold your jaws shut and try to say: “I was born in the shadows.” Doesn’t work too well.

    I have also hated Chrisian Bale’s voice as Batman. Always seemed hokey and like a ten-year-old kid trying to sound like Charles Bronson or Darth Vader.

    And yes, Blake/Robin’s recognizing Batman from “that look in your eyes.” puh-leez. Not only was it sappy, but Blake could see that look in his eyes through the rubber cowl and five Maybelline pencils worth of black eye make-up? Nice try. What’s so weird is that the Boy Wonder was always good at figuring out puzzles, so why they passed up on this (and several other opportunities) to let him demonstrate this deductive acumen seems like a weird omission.

    One thing I did like that was kind of subtle, was that all five major characters — Catwoman, Batman, Robin, Bane and Miranda — were orphans. Or am I wrong?

  59. B Thurman

    July 24, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    My question is, if Bane was going to nuke Gotham, how did he expect to live?

  60. MeLlamoKeanu

    July 24, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    I agree with you about all these gripes. Was enough to make me disappointed in the film. But then again, the expectations I had going in were through the roof, so still enjoyed the movie, just slightly disappointed because it could have been a lot better.

  61. Roger B

    July 24, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    Read the whole article/comments. Interesting stuff. I don’t agree with much of the article. I think a lot of the criticisms are just too early to place because you’re not thinking everything through. I think ‘C Money’ gave one of the best responses. I will add a few points to the discussion:

    A.) The movie was already pushing 3 hours so I think explaining the trip to and from the prison would have been unnecessary and a waste of time. Also I think critics are always quick to jump on directors when they stay in the mind of a characters singular experience. In this case Bruce’s limited knowledge of where he was taken (he was unconscious, after all.) These movies loosely follow Bruce’s point of view. As for the trip back, I feel that a man of his capabilities could have done it. It’s hard to place how long it took (I think another commenter stated that the dialogue suggests two weeks. Makes sense.) Likewise on getting in to Gotham. The military made it in, why not Bruce? Side note- nobody whined in Batman Begins when Nolan jumped to Bruce leaving the first prison. Or how he got back in touch with Alfred after being gone for so long. I think that’s the fun in story telling. Jumping past the incidentals. Passing time as you see fit.

    B.) The fact that Bruce finds Selina should come as no surprise. Little nods are hidden in the movie to explain that. For instance Bruce tracks down her address before the lock down and even visits her. Tells Blake to drop him in old town. He knows her fascination with being a sort of robin hood. Which always comes with a strong sense of community. So, where would he go to find her when he gets back in? Old town. Her side supports this as well. The only thing that would make her leave her community was the fear of being killed by Bane. Blake ropes her back in via a prison sentence, though. Then, just before meeting Bruce, she helps the boy with the apple. At which point you hear her state something about it being her turf to the attackers.

    C.) I don’t agree with the stance that Bane is Talia’s dog on a leash. I can understand that people are being reactionary and over protective of the character because of what Hollywood did in the past but this movie doesn’t show him as a weak minded follower. The dialogue states that he was previously in the league of shadows. So he was already devoted to the cause regardless of his love for Talia. But he was cast out because he loved the daughter of the league of shadows. Which then causes Talia to hate her father, Ras. Ras then dies at the hands of Batman and she wants to enact revenge on his killer and finish her fathers plan because regardless of what he did to Bane, he was her father. Each is motivated by their own desires to see the plan fulfilled. Bane wants Gotham to prevail because he was IN the league of shadows so this aligns with his prior motivations. Talia wants Gotham to fall because that’s what her father wanted. So when Talia and Bane come together to enact the plan, they are doing so as partners. Equals. Each plays an important role separate from the other. They are motivated by their own desires to see Gotham fall. The only time that Bane could be seen as subordinate to Talia is when shes mending his mask and telling of their love. But people should be careful not to read that incorrectly. He wasn’t supposed to lose that fight but Batman got the better of him. The only reason Talia got the jump on Batman was because he never suspected her involvement. But Bane is not weak or subordinate to her. He just got caught in a bad situation. Talia fixed it and Bane went on. Bane would have won here, too but Selina took him down.

    I had more points but I can get a bit long winded when I’m passionate about something and now I’ve worn myself out. But I’d love to see what others think of my thoughts. I’ll try to come back here and reply.

  62. mrpinkeye

    July 25, 2012 at 4:55 am

    i agree with it all…esp the pit scene! i was scratching my head thinking “how the hell has bane taken batman miles away and got back so quickly” lame

  63. mrpinkeye

    July 25, 2012 at 4:55 am

    oh, and banes voice is a joke. like actually funny haha. lame

  64. hgizzleman

    July 25, 2012 at 6:12 am

    I say watch the movie again. There have been comments on here that explain many of the gripes in the article. I think that this is a movie that must be watched several times like inception or the Matrix. There is a lot of little things going on that you can’t truly understand until you’ve seen it several times preferably on DVD so you can rewind and watch scenes over. The movie was great and as for Batman beating Bane easily the second time it was simply because he knocked the mask off. In the 90’s cartoon he would just have to get the hoses that give bane his juice power, this is the same thing with the mask just knock it off.

  65. Joe

    July 25, 2012 at 10:05 am

    You’re forgetting that Gordon was going to tell the audience the truth about Harvey Dent in one of the opening scenes, hence the pages of writing he had in his jacket and that Bane found when Gordon was taken by his men. Dislodgment of a vertebra, takes no longer than 6 weeks to fully heal, therefore giving backing to why Batman was stronger the second time around.

    I thought it was a masterful way of concluding Bruce Wayne’s story.

  66. Tom

    July 25, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    My question has been: What is Bane’s mask actual functionality> What did those people do to him to require such a mask? Does it have a power source? Why did pulling one of those tubes from the mask hurt him? I want to see a mechanical and functional diagram / explanation of Bane’s mask! lol

  67. Tom

    July 25, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    HA, nevermind, i actually found the answers in your other article, thanks!

  68. AJ

    July 25, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    I think I was actually shaking my head and nearly face palming towards the end of the film.
    How is it possible to get an atomic bomb, 6+ miles away in under 2 minutes?
    And Batman may have used the auto pilot to escape, but again, how could he have gotten 6+ miles away in under 10 seconds? (I’m guessing Batman escaped at that point as we still saw Batman in ‘The Bat’ right up to the last 8 seconds or so before the bomb exploding).
    Also, how come the cops have been underground for 5 months and they come out with pristine uniforms and are clean shaven and tidy?
    One last thing, Talia says about avenging her fathers death and finishing what he had started, she was going to blow up Gotham anyway, so why wait 5 months?

  69. AJ

    July 25, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Although, about Talia waiting 5 months, Bane wanted to make an example out of Gotham, so that’s probably why.

  70. Travis

    July 25, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    I totally agree with you one the lazy writing! to much exposition in the dialogue. Especially Talia’s stupid long backstory. Just show the reveal in a couple flashbacks and give the audience credit for being able to figure out that she was the child. And at the end when Blake shows the lady his ID. Just show his full name on the ID, don’t have someone say super unrealistic dialogue like “you should use your full name, Robin” (da-da-daaaaaa).

    They also pulled a T-rex at the end of Jurassic Park move when Selina Kyle on the frickin Batbike(!)sneaks into the room where Bane is choking out Batman without anyone noticing her until she blows Bane away. Completely anticlimactic end to the main villain and with out the satisfaction of Batman having beaten him.

  71. Joe

    July 26, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Bane and Batman were fighting on roughly the same level at the start of their second fight as they were in their first. It wasn’t until after Bats started destroying Bane’s mask that he started owning him
    You make some good points, but yeah, I thought the film was awesome XD

  72. Joker474

    July 26, 2012 at 12:07 am

    wow, that was fucki** stupid… The only real gripe is, poeple really likes to hate on things that other people love, thats it! Real smart people loved the movie, haters, of course, hated it for some really stupid reasons… I knew from the start that thing; HATERS GONNA HATE.

  73. Guest

    July 26, 2012 at 4:44 am

    I stopped reading after you said “…even manages to beat out Hans Zimmer’s obnoxious score”. What’s wrong with you!?

  74. Great ending

    July 26, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    I think if you all read the comics, you will find even more loopholes. With the exception of Alex Ross, there are few who can tell a complete story based in reality.

    In Batman lore, Batman infiltrates the White House, and one of his JL team members ask how does he do it? He replies, (paraphrasing) “There is no building I cannot infiltrate.”

    After watching it a second time, much like TDK, I appreciate many of the nuances that are overlooked for big explosions and action the first time.

    Their facial reactions to each other are amazing. But the scenes sometimes cut too quickly to grab many of them.

    I give Nolan a pass because, yes, he deserves a few mistakes given he has made some amazing movies. You guys are giving him the Zack Snyder treatment.

    I would like to add The Long Halloween was great, but not perfect. Hush was good, but not perfect. No Man’s Land was amazing, but not perfect.

    And finally, my only complaint was that the movie was too short. And explaining Bane’s origin should have been left for the audience, much like Joker. In no other film do we explore a villain’s origin, except superhero films.

    Historically, if you know your enemy’s past, you know how to beat them. In reality, we don’t expect crazy people to do what they do which is why it’s always a surprise, much like last weekend.

  75. Pod

    July 26, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    The one thing that bothered me the most was Bane’s reason for the bomb.

    He said he wanted to see the people of Gotham despair, and that there could be no despair without hope first. So, his plan was to give the people hope, then blow them up no matter what happened? When exactly was the despair supposed to happen???

  76. Brian

    July 26, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    The movie definitely had it’s flaws… here are some for example…

    that Nuke (with a 6 mile blast radius) flew less than 2 minutes away… no talk about the severe radiation everyone is going to be exposed to? just throw those orphans in a near by mansion, and everything is good… also, the Bat was 20 feet above that nuke when it exploded. how the hell were they able to examine it, to determine that it was fixed to have an autopilot, and when the hell did Bruce Wayne have time to install an autopilot.

    Why did the CIA just toss 3 masked men on a plane with them, sure they didn’t have time to change the flight plan on the ground… but, why not take a look who you are boarding? that seemed weird. Also, I’m no doctor, but I don’t think putting a couple ounces of Pavol’s blood in a cadaver morphs the guy into Pavol.

    those are just 2 examples that stood out to me when I saw the movie last night, but there were others…

    Some things you point out, I disagree that they were flaws…

    1. the prison, I believe they spoke about where it was when Wayne was hearing the story of the mercenary’s child (I want to say it was in Uzbekistan, but not 100% sure)… And you point out how Bane moved back in forth from Gotham to there and back… it helps that hindsight is 20/20, but he was working with the person that had full control over Wayne Enterprises money and resources… don’t think Talia could have set up a private plane to and from?
    Also, It would have been cool to see how Bruce got back, but this movie was almost 3 hours as it is, think seeing his route back to Gotham would have had much an effect on the movie? Again hindsight, Bruce Wayne is a trained Ninja, you don’t think that he could have sneaked onto a cargo jet or ship or something, then made his way past mercenaries into a huge city? time constraints limit certain things from being included… also, when Bruce escaped the pit, there was 23 days left until that bomb went off, he got back and there was less than a day… that is a 3 week period of time.

    2. I had no problem with the way they had Blake figure out Batman’s identity. Because it created a connection between the two, Blake is a character meant to take up the mantle of Batman, when Wayne is done… it is hard to just accept that it is like “oh, he is a great detective that uncovered who Batman truly was, by connecting the dots… great lead into creating Robin… The way Nolan did it, basically shows that deep down, they are one in the same, and that is why he is a great choice to follow in Wayne/Batman’s footsteps.

    3. To Compare the Poison Ivy/Bane master/dog relationship to that of Talia and Bane, is laughable… All this reveal did, was show that Bane was not the driving force behind destroying Gotham, that it was Talia, but he was in no way just a henchman/dog on a leash or a puppet having his strings pulled, he was working with someone he loved and cared for, and the same goes for Talia… My only problem with that reveal is that it was kind of anti-climatic, because it was expected since she was cast in the role of Miranda Tate, that Marion Cotillard was actually Talia Al Guhl… also, it didn’t help that it was revealed that Ra’s child was the one that escaped the pit… if you followed the comics, you knew that his child was a daughter. Other than knowing it was coming, I had no problem with the reveal.

    4. Also, had no issue with Bane finding that speech exposing Harvey Dent… Gordon is an officer that has to be in the field, he goes straight from that party to the scene where he is captured and brought to Bane… Not really shocking how he got it.

    So, all in all, the movie had it’s flaws here and there, but, IMO, this was the best of Nolan’s trilogy. you can find these issues in the others (I haven’t seen Batman Begins in awhile, so I can’t name one in that off the top of my head), but look at TDK, the interrogation scene, as awesome as the acting was, had some terrible cuts and editing issues. Then there are other issues, Like when that guy explodes in the prison cell, the prison is crowded as hell, and Joker is holding the one cop hostage, the bomb goes off, and all of a sudden, the Joker and Chan are the only two in there, and neither is slightly harmed. How does Gamble die instantly from having his face cut? etc. there are always flaws in movies, but some of the things you point out, are not flaws if you look at whole picture, and overall, IMO, this movie was cleaner and overall better than the first 2, which is saying alot. My biggest issue, was that they changed Bane’s voice, in the prologue, he sounded so much better, but so many complaints made the studio clear his voice up, and at many times it did sound cartoonish and/or out of place.

  77. Fatman

    July 26, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    The basic premises were all wet. Fusion reactors, if ever they exist will not have cores nor would decay result in an explosion. Thermonuclear reactions are neutron rich and energy poor. The mushroom shaped cloud was more in the nature of a medium tens of kiloton device as opposed to 4 megaton. The interminable advertising prior to the film had me inured to the errors all of the characters make. Yes, it is a Comic Book story. Must it have been so mind numbing?

  78. Dan Bullock

    July 26, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    On first reaction, I bloody loved TDKR.

    I did notice a bit of chop-happy editing, that sometimes over lapped either too quickly or over previous dialogue, but I do wonder if this was a studio attack – in order to get that rating down for the major release.

    Generally though? Best feeling and thing I’ve seen in years. Unexpectedly emotionally overwhelming, from 2005 until now I’ve been through so much change and it was reflected in the film, for me.

    Hathaway, Hardy, Bale, Nolan = Damn’d right brilliant heroes for one epic finale.

  79. Dan Bullock

    July 26, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Pod – Surely that’s obvious? The despair would not only be the people knowing they were about to die – after hope – but the ripples across the world/outside the Bat world?

    No? It’s not just their despair, and also because they didn’t know the bomb was set to go off anyway.

    And so forth…

  80. Great ending

    July 26, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    lol Some of the stuff you all are asking for would have made for a 40 hour movie.

    Batman Begins made us believe

    The Dark Knight established the Hero – Villain theme.

    The Dark Knight Rises finished Nolan’s Trilogy.

    Reality TV has turned your brains in mashed potatoes.

  81. Luke Ryan Baldock

    July 26, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Unfortunately, for me, I found nothing emotional in this film. Unlike The Dark Knight, where Oldman’s line “We have to save Dent, ‘I’ have to save dent.” Got me every time. Also the betrayal of Bruce by Miranda, was nothing compared to the relationship between Bruce and Andrea in Mask Of The Phantasm.

  82. Dan Bullock

    July 27, 2012 at 9:45 am

    ‘Great ending’ – I agree!

    Luke – Although I do get that, I think you have to compare within any films own ideology, otherwise the negatives are almost literally endless.

    The fight scenes echoed Hardy in Warrior recently, especially from Bale’s Batman. That overwhelmed emotion in his character, wanting to win and beat Bane down but being completely devoid of how to do it. Whereas, once he came back and knocked Bane down, that really hit home with me. I don’t know why but it did feel against the odds, because Batman was pushing his own beliefs to the utter limit, almost heading towards breaking his own ‘one rule’.

    For me, three completely different films with 3 different realities. My only ‘erms’ was some editing, as previously mentioned, and wasn’t that the same score from Zimmer as the Dark Knight? ;-)

  83. Great ending

    July 27, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Dan Bullock –

    I wouldn’t have so much a problem with the complaints if the movie claimed to be a true story.

    However, people went into this movie knowing a few things – A grown man runs around at night in a cape with no guns, taking down multiple heavily armed thugs and mercenaries.

    The protagonist also grabs his 215 lb enemies from hanging upside down.

    The reality is people choose when and where to insert the implied plot connections.

    The very nature of nitpicking is annoying.

  84. Terence

    July 27, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    This is the worst of the trilogy. The ending sucked. I mean really. That’s how you end it. Bruce Wayne quiting and faking his death. Then this fake ass Robin takes his place. This movie only proves the Nolan brothers don’t know shit about Batman. I haven’t been this pissed off since Smallville series finale.

  85. AngelBoy

    July 27, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Boy, I swear you gainsayers and fools…literally..crack me up lololol…I’m sorry I’m just totally in tears, really. I think I missed the part on 98% of the comments where you people are actually getting paid for your trivial and seemingly absurd opinions. You remind me of sugar pants wearing marvel fanboy trolls to be honest. Give us a break lol. And REMEMBER, there are 2 reasons why you leave retarded comments such as yours i.e. continuity flaws, mistakes, fight scenes ( you people don’t even know how to make a fist pah-lease) etc. One, you really did enjoy the movie, more than what youll admit to so…..thanks for paying to go see it 2 or 3 times ;-) and two, write on….write on…since obviously you’re a MUCH better film maker, editor, producer, and director ( choking on my own vomit from laughing at you idiots) since you’ll never make it in the real world lol. Kids like the failure as a professor teaching business in a university. Why? Because he is a slave…a follower…an ant and part of the collective that’ll never amount to anything else let alone an entrepreneur lol. TDKR ftw! Good job Nolan!

  86. eddie money

    July 27, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    I disagree with you because you’re a douchebag. First, Bane’s voice sounds like Sean Connery through a blow horn and is, therefore, awesome. Period. Second, at least the characters in the story know the themes Nolan’s going for and have the balls to say it out loud. Period. Third, how could you be such a bully to want to slap a senior citizen right in his face? Fourth, he could come back and beat Bane because after being in prison and growing a mountain man beard, he gets back to Gotham and gets to clean up. There’s nothing that can energize one’s spirits and make them ready to conquer the world more than a fresh, clean shave. Fifthly, we know where the prison was. IMDB clearly states that locations were shot in India. I mean, I know they didn’t say that in the movie, but everyone should be required to do research before going into the theater. Period. Also, just because Bruce Wayne is broke doesn’t mean he still isn’t rich. A man like him would’ve had passports, stacks of cash, a wetsuit and scuba gear buried in holes all over the world, if for no other better reason than the script needed him to. Sixthly, maybe their Avid editing software was having problems the day they were cutting the courtroom scene and they had to make do. You obviously don’t understand how the real world works. Seventhly, how can you call the dialogue lazy? What movies have you written? Where’s your Hollywood blockbuster? If you could do better then show me your IMDB credits. Also, we should be singing the Nolan brothers’ praises, for only they would have the balls to convey such an important plot point like having Robin figure out who Batman was in the most non-cinematic and visually uninteresting way imaginable: namely, having a talking head sit in a chair and talk about an event we never get to see. Lastly, I think the twist with Maranda Tate was totally unexpected. I mean, we already knew Maranda Tate was really Talia, but Nolan twists it by doing exactly what the audience suspected. When you give us exactly what we think is going to happen, then we can’t see it coming. It’s so predictable that it’s unpredictable. Besides, Marion Cotillard was asked if she was Talia by the press. She said no. You should have believed her. After all, actors are terrible at making people think they’re something they’re not…douchebag. Period.

  87. Jaskee

    July 27, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    I agree with most of your points, but the last fight between Batman and Bane does make sense. I think Batman was able to overtake Bane in the rematch, because he was supposed to be in better shape the second time around since he was constantly working out in prison. He also got the upper hand in their second battle due to him damaging Bane’s mask during the fight.

  88. Logan Terheggen

    July 28, 2012 at 4:42 am

    I think the inherent flaw in most TDKR criticisms is that people want to compare it to TDK and find similarities. TDKR and TDK are completely different films with completely different messages they are trying to convey and by comparing them you will miss out on the true pleasure that TDKR brings. It is my favorite of the trilogy for several reasons.
    1.) Addressing your criticism of Bane’s voice: I believe I might be one of the few who actually enjoyed the cinematic feel of his voice. I believe this enhanced his character and made him seem larger than life, as Bane should be. It differentiated him. And for those who say he was hard to understand, come on now. The only line I had trouble understanding was when he killed the special ops guy. Other than that it was spot on. Upon multiple viewings I have found I like Bane as a villain just as much as the Joker and believe both actors did a phenomenal job. They are villains who possess different agendas. While the Joker commits crimes for the sake of chaos and disorder Bane commits his crimes simply because he is evil. Personally, I took the cool calculated approach to the death of a city and his henchmen to be even more morally frightening than the Joker’s antics.

    2.) The dialogue- Granted this is really just a personal opinion for anyone who views the movie, but Nolan’s general style has always been placed more on dialogue and explanation. I always enjoy them because they present different themes upon every rewatch and it is the dialogue..not the action.. that made TDK and, to a lesser extent, Batman Begins so timeless

    3.) On a quick note I would like to address the complaint of the lack of the bat. The first film focused on Batman and was a batman film. The second focused on the Joker and was a Joker film. While the third addressed Bruce Wayne and his evolution. Given the conclusion, it hearkens back to Batman Begins where Rachel tells Bruce that his real mask is the mask of Bruce Wayne (which also supports Blake’s deduction) and that someday, when Gotham no longer needs saving..they old Bruce will come back. THAT is what the film was about to me.

    4.) Who cares where the prison was honestly? It was pure symbolism in classic Nolan style. Additionally, even if they had extended the film even longer to provide that information, how would it have furthered the film at all? That is what I ask and the answer is clearly either not at all or not significantly enough to justify the additional explanation.

    5.)Alfred- if you pay attention to the dialogue you so adamantly criticize you would notice why Alfred is so against Bruce suiting back up…”I didn’t know I was known for trifling with criminals”-Bruce..”You weren’t. But that was then and this is now….”-Alfred who then goes on to give the resources speech. Or something very near to that effect. This is a critical element in the development of the story because it acknowledges the elapsed time and its effect on the caped crusader.

    5.) For those who wish this to be TDK 2.0 you will forever nitpick and be disappointed. For those who want the third installment of the trilogy that tells a completely different story in its own right whilst tying in elements from the previous two in masterful story telling fashion then you will be blown away. No movie is perfect how could it be. By letting such trifles as this distract you from enjoying the overall performance is slightly ludicrous.

    6.) I LOVE TDK. I have seen it too many times to count. That being said, it has gaping plot holes in it that make this criticism seem rather illegitimate. Let me name a few: Joker crashes party and Batman ends up jumping out window to save Rachel..The Joker is still at the party fully capable of terrorizing it and finding harvey dent. The interrogation scene culminating in one phone explosion eliminating everyone but the Joker and loa. how in the world the Joker plants explosives in a hospital and two ferries in the given time frame. Two Face lives through the Morony crash without another scratch..who’s to say sal didnt survive with just some severe injuries? When Bat takes the fall Gordon would not have been able to know of Dent’s crimes seeing as he seemed quite surprised Dent had kidnapped his family. I could go on however that would be doing what I hate most and nitpicking at the petty details which causes you to lose enjoyment and appreciation for a wonderfully put together movie. Themes and symbolism is why this movie became so huge.

    TDKR is flows better than TDK and, despite obvious flaws and mistakes, is overall a better movie in general. One acting Job(the joker) however brilliant, can justify ranking TDK above TDKR in terms of continuity. I have more to say but I think I have rambled enough. I am just tired of all these posts looking for flaws instead of enjoying the brilliant conclusion to a fabulous trilogy.

  89. Logan Terheggen

    July 28, 2012 at 4:43 am

    In my final paragraph I made a slight typo and it is meant to read, “cannot justify…” my apologies

  90. Doc999

    July 28, 2012 at 8:33 am

    I get so tired of people and there stupid gripes about the little things in movies, can anyone just enjoy a movie anymore without picking it apart as if they could have done much better. People spend so much time sitting there watching it only to try and find reasons to hate it for something or pick it apart that they completely miss everything that made it great. And as far as Batman from the comics, well that’s all irrelevant, they call it the Nolanverse of the Batman movies for a reason, they tried to give us the Batman from the comics and they crapped all over it. Lets all be happy that someone took a slightly and I stress slightly more realistic approach to it and gave us one of the best Comic book movie franchises to date. Now if people would just shut up about Superman, we have Zack Snyder and Nolan on this one, my god I can’t imagine the coolness they are cooking up for this movie. And if all some people can come up with to complain about is the costume, go back and watch that last travesty and tell me the costume saved that movie, that movie could have been good but the story was horrible, and even then I was still entertained, just left wishing they had put more effort into it all. We live in a great time where more and more comic movies are being done with greater care and effort than the past, we are losing a lot of the cheese factor for more gritty stories, and it’s going to be these so called traditionalist aka fan boys that take us back to the dark ages of comic movies, and all we will be left with is romantic or god forbid bromantic comedies and period pieces that all the critics love so much, the only time I want to visit the past is if I’m watching Doctor Who, and I would sooner get kicked in the nuts before I waste my time with anything

  91. Doc999

    July 28, 2012 at 8:35 am

    labeled a bromance……..cont from last post

  92. CLBALDWIN

    July 28, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    I’m reading all the comments and I have to agree that people do find a lot to complain about than rather than enjoy a night out at the movies. Personally, I liked the movie, I liked Bane’s voice and character; the Talia twist I didn’t see it and it was refreshing that it wasn’t obvious…all these issues with the time lapse…really??? Who cares? The point was that he built up his mental spirit, which in the end is what it was about.

    As far as him being a recluse and pained from the death of Rachel…getting over the death of someone you loved is not such an easy task, some people never truly get over that…I liked that it showed he was still human and actually cared. Yes, he is Batman but he was Bruce Wayne first who saw his parents murdered afterall…so much tragedy is bound to make a person become a recluse and shy from the world. This actually set him up for failure with his first encounter with Bane; he didn’t care about living anymore.

    My comment was actually to address a comment by James written on July 23…who said something about holding your jaws closed and not being able to talk and therefore questioned Bane’s ability to speak; um…people don’t talk with their jaws, they talk with their lips and throat. Now if he had a trach collar then i would question his ability to speak. But having a mask over your face doesn’t hinder your speaking ability.

    Like someone else commented on as well…i’m sure there will be a director’s cut that would explain more details and be more suited for the adult minds. Sometimes movies for the masses raise more questions.

  93. Dan Bullock

    July 28, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    P.S. A voice, also, wouldn’t be distorted by a hemp sack over someones head.

    These are seriously small nitpicks for me and although, I understand certain elements, I freaking loved this far too much to care about the little things. Otherwise, we’d all never watch any film without ripping it to pieces.

    After all, it’s all about escapism and if you spend a lifetime trying to find what’s wrong with fantasy, god knows (however you see him/it/her) what you’ll do with reality.

    ;-)

  94. John

    July 28, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    I like articles like this, because once again it proves that as fan of such movies, that I am too stupid to see the things that make this movie worse than it what I believe it too be. Thanks for not letting my self esteem get too big thinking this film was a good as I thought it to be, and that my opinion is once again not worth listening too.

  95. Bob

    July 29, 2012 at 2:41 am

    Love the film but it does bring questions when analysed.

    If people knew the camouflage tumblers were from the Wayne Corp. Wouldn’t people expect Batman to be involved in Wayne Corp with his black tumbler in TDK?

  96. Logan

    July 29, 2012 at 4:18 am

    Well, the people do not know where the militia obtained the tumblers from is the thing. They just know that they have them. However, that is a legitimate question, but one that you have to overlook because it’s too logical to fit into a universe where a caped crusader can do so much.

  97. zen

    July 29, 2012 at 6:48 am

    Wow, people getting so offended at an article criticizing their precious TDKR is hilariously sad. You can disagree without being insulting; doing so will make you look less like an angry fanboy frothing at the mouth to defend a movie.

    Some asked why we can’t just enjoy a movie without nitpicking. Why shouldn’t we be able to analyze a film we care about? For a run of the mill action blockbuster or comedy, sure, gloss over and enjoy. Those films don’t try to be anything they aren’t. But for a film that aspires to be more, as this one does, it warrants closer inspection in my opinion. Bottom line, I agree with the points in the article.

  98. Luke Ryan Baldock

    July 29, 2012 at 6:58 am

    For all the people saying things such as “If you look for nitpicks and criticisms you’ll never enjoy anything etc.” That’s precisely the point. I didn’t LOOK for things to fault in TDKR, I just noticed them straight away without any effort on my part. To me, they stood out like a sore thumb. Yes, all films have flaws, but truly great films have qualities that hide their flaws; great characters, snappy dialogue, an involving plot, and so forth.

  99. Jay

    July 29, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I think these criticisms are valid. How did Bruce get from desert prison in central Kazakhstan, where he has no money, is not well known, has no fortune to draw on, and no butler, to Gotham in record time, AND fortuitously bumps into Cat Woman? How did he get past the U.S. military, the ice, etc? I was also disappointed with the WWF wrestling slug-fest between Bane and Batman. I can understand in the first encounter Batman may have under estimated Bane, but the second time… why not take a gun, a STUN gun, the nifty hand-saw you used in the beginning of the Dark Knight, projectile gloves, a net, or at least a cable or two .. rather than just slug it out again with someone four times your size? Final gripe, Batman and Catwoman are on the roof of a building where they jump into Batman’s plane, the Bat, to escape from Bane. For some reason, they fly hastily away … Bane and his men aren’t even shooting, have no rockets, etc. Bane approaches in his deer skin jacket. A single grenade or a few machine gun rounds from the Bat would have ended things right there.

  100. Dan Bullock

    July 29, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Jay – You’re missing the known one rule, Batman doesn’t kill people…(He can see). But, he does like to blow things up.

    And it’s not Catwoman, it’s Selina Kyle, who’s a cat burglar.

    Moving away from sarcasm, which is hard to put across in comments and seems to make everyone believe you’re having a go at them, when I’m not, I’m just commmenting like everyone else! Bruce/Batman wanted to beat him on his own terms, that’s why he trains and comes back. He has to, it’s inherent to his character. To prove that you can beat the bad guy on his own terms and not turn to cheap tricks, however, Catwoman’s rules are different…a la Batpod!

    Also, Bane’s men were shooting if you don’t remember the machine guns? The reason they got into the Bat and then they stopped shooting as they were flying away in the aforementioned Bat.

    We’ve got a comic-book world that previously did base itself in reality but this film, took a lot more from the comic book reality and for it, I still love it.

  101. Dan Bullock

    July 29, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Actually!

    One other quick point, which I think is fair, if you/me/anyone is allowed to think you saw lots of problems and mistakes, then you’re also allowed to admit that other people didn’t see those flaws/mistakes.

    Opinion, of course, is exactly that.

    It’s like saying you hate the Olympics and expecting people to care if the other party doesn’t.

  102. Great ending

    July 29, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Jay- Daggett gave Bane a small fortune.

    Roland Daggett: I paid you a small fortune…
    Bane: And you think this gives you power over me?

  103. James

    July 29, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Wow — Thanks to Dan Bullock, Luke and Zen. People, the title of the thread was “My biggest nitpicks.” You know what it’s going to be, and I (having noticed a few, too) was glad to find this thread. If you loved the movie and didn’t care, that is great for you, I am glad you enjoyed it. If I had enjoyed it as much as you all, then I wouldn’t have cared about (or even noticed) all these little things, but I didn’t, so I did. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and that means people who loved the movie and those who find fault with it.

    And as someone already pointed out, given the enormous hype and fannage around this movie — the epic climax and end to a very entertaining trilogy — the writer/director etc should have trimmed every loose end possible, knowing that smart people and devoted fans would want and expect nothing less than the best. I loved the first two, and I sure did.

  104. Logan

    July 29, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    James- Dissenters of this article have, for the most part, not been lunatic fan boys they have made intelligent comments refuting the nit picks. You are asking people to not immerse themselves in the other side of an opinion which by proxy would make them a bit ignorant of social perception.

    For me personally, I loved the movie and thought it lived up beautifully to the hype. Did I notice some flaws, which I considered minor, sure of course. However, that being said I read this thread to see what other people thought about it and why they may not have liked it as much as I did. So that it gives me something to watch for the next time I see it to see if they have a point. You can read my prior posts, they are not belligerent in the least. Most of the nitpicks are either opinionated or simply are not logical let’s be honest, but some are quite valid. If you notice a common theme of people defending the movie is for them to say yes I agree with some of these points, but they have kinda been blown out of proportion. The fact they agree implies they also wish to see what other people thought. It’s not a crime to love a movie and want to see why others didn’t.

    In your second paragraph you basically insulted the intelligence of anyone who thought this movie actually did live up to the hype and close of loose ends. Smart people would know that Nolan is really not known for closing up loose ends (spinning top anyone?). Additionally, it is the absence of every closed end that allows the viewer to extrapolate his own imagined idea of what could happen which provides further enjoyment. Besides that, please tell me how much more closed of an end you want it then Bruce in Florence with Selina and Blake rising up in the cave? like it or not that kind of puts it right there in front of you. That is a definitive conclusion. We can wonder what happens afterwards, but there is nothing unclear about that ending so please explain the implied plethora of loose ends. I am a smart guy and pretty devoted fan and my expectations were exceeded by this film.

    In conclusion, I believe it is simply short sighted not to at least read some criticisms of the film so that you do not stray into the dangerous land of the crazed fan boy. The fact people who like the film post a comment in contradiction of this article is perfectly reasonable. I’ve found other critical articles in which I also was able to resonate with the author, but this one was a bit too critical just for the sake of looking for flaws. At least in my opinion

  105. Chris

    July 30, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    Did everyone forget that Batman tore through the hoses in Bane’s mask? That definitely helped him defeat him. It’d be a lot harder to win a fight if you’re in constant pain from old injuries. He also was more prepared (trained in the Prison) and had the fear of death and a stronger will to succeed. Also, I think Catwoman had to pull the trigger. She did what Batman couldn’t. Because batman doesn’t kill. Some of your points make sense, but I completely disagree about Alfred. He added some great emotional weight. Yes he always supported Bruce, but he also always was wary about him being Batman, he was alway the first to criticize him jumping around on rooftops. And to remind Bruce that he wasn’t immortal. Now he was on the verge of losing his adopted son, and he couldn’t handle it. He is the reason I was happy that they showed Bruce at the end. I wouldve felt horrible for alfred feeling he failed. Otherwise I wouldve been ok with a vague ending.

  106. Shaun

    July 31, 2012 at 1:19 am

    I actually thought the movie was very good, but it had more ‘bad’ with the story than good. The other thing I found disapointing was that the characters were mis represented. If you look at the Batman characters in Arkham City, they nailed it. Where was the sex appeal of Selina in this one, yes she was fun, but surely a hint of her cleverage would have helped her cause. Gordan seemed way to weak for a hardened police commisioner, did he even smoke in this film? It was almost too PC….and the twist with Talia, how can a character so good in batman arkham city, become the worst possible ‘twist’ in the batman franchise period. The story was good, not perfect, I thought someone like Peter Jackson handles ‘mass’ army fights better than nolan did….and for the wow factor, I think batman needed another toy, it didn’t happen…he just flew around in the bat all day….i think it was very good, but they didn’t nail it like the story telling in the new amazing spiderman movie.

  107. Dylan

    July 31, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Yes, you are being to critical. Now do us all a favor and shut the hell up.

  108. Brett

    July 31, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Though some very good points were brought up, the movie was good, and the only explanation needed is that they had over a year and a half to cover in just under 3 hours i think the little things, are truly acceptable.

    The reason bats is able to hurt bane after the second fight is because 1st he now knew what he was up against and had the confidence to want to live unlike there first encounter, and second, he had his little hand grippy things that gives him the “super strength” feel, this may be a stretch but, its how it goes.

  109. Rich

    August 2, 2012 at 5:08 am

    I had a few issues with the movie mostly because when Bane was introduced in the comics it was a big deal and the knight fall, night quest books would make a great trilogy. In the comics the prison is in a fake country. My one real issue with this movie was Blakes hair. Four months go by and the city is shut down except for super cuts.

  110. Joe

    August 2, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    sorry I still see way too much nit picking… I saw the movie a second time and it was even better. The things many are complaining about are probably things you wouldn’t think are so bad if you saw the movie again. All the points fit together. I agree movies have some bad parts but some of the things people are complaining about are ridiculous. complaining about things nobody could get right. Thought the movie was spectacular. and who hates on hans Zimmers music? His music is amazing and is a big part of what makes the movie so exciting

  111. Al Jagiello

    August 5, 2012 at 2:26 am

    I’ve noticed that a lot of the critiques of this film have all addressed the same basic things which I truly believe has more to do with sites like this than watching the actual film. I believe that, if people went into this without having read so much prior and were asked to write their critiques, there would be a huge difference. People are reiterating things they read. Just my opinion. I walked out of the theater thoroughly impressed. Much more so than I did when I saw Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. It just felt satisfying. In retrospect, I won’t deny that some of the nitpicks happened. I just bought into the world that was created and didn’t want to leave. The most minor nitpick upon leaving leaving was that JGL was called Robin and not Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, or Tim Drake…but then I just got extremely excited that they pulled off an original Robin character. I have read the comics for 30+ years and some storylines were amazing and some forgettable. There will be more Batman. This may not have been the series for you…or you…or you. I personally grinned as I saw shades of some of my favorite storylines unfold on screen. Stories like No Man’s Land, The Dark Knight Returns, and, obviously, Knightfall. The comics and films are obviously all flawed but on the good ones I look past that and connect viscerally. This was a better trilogy than any of us expected and deserved. It will not change the world. Pick up a comic. Bruce is still Batman (when Batman is not Jean Paul Valley or Dick Grayson…).
    One specific that is being addressed is the Bane/Talia thing. I thought that it was great. It echoed Begins’ idea that the League hides their true leader the same way they did with Ducard/al Ghul. I found Bane to be much more than a lackey. He is possibly my favorite villain besides the Joker (although he has been mishandled in the comics) and it was wonderful to see an intelligent and articulate equal to Batman which was what I feel his character should be in the books.
    In closing, I suppose I tend to get lost in the bigger picture and don’t let the details ruin my opinion. I find my wife to be the most wonderful and beautiful work of art I’ve ever had the luck to lay my eyes on. Maybe you’ll see her freckles and scars. I see the phantasmagoria. :)

  112. Al Jagiello

    August 5, 2012 at 2:45 am

    Sorry about the double post.

  113. dvdp112

    August 6, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    I like the some of the points you made but nolan did not stray away from what worked with TDK. the joker was the most omniscient character of all time he knew and did everything at the right time. like when he was burning the money at the docks he called the tv show in the middle of the interview with reese and put a hit on him. there are more incidents when the joker was too smart for his own good not to mention how did he get all the gasoline. but thats neither he nor there. the main problem with the movie series is the order if bane was the villain of the second film and the joker was the villain of the third then i probably would of been better progression i guess. in a trilogy the third movie is suppose to be the biggest most threatening and while the stakes where pretty big the villain was not big enough. its just that BB was good then TDK was so great it would be hard to follow TDKR was also good but it was overs shadowed by TDK because the joker was to big of a character. by the way i loved the movie

  114. Stephanie Grey

    August 7, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    ALEX!!!!! THE GUY WHO DID THE SUM_UP OF DKR!!! YOU ARE THE BEST GUY EVER TO QWRITE SUM_UPS. HAVE you published any more summerizes of movies ????????

  115. Al Jagiello

    August 8, 2012 at 12:30 am

    New idea for the next series:
    ?…and I got it! I’d start the new series with Batman stopping a breakout of Arkham Asylum. It would establish that he’s been doing this for a while and has put a lot of freaks away. He’d call out to some of his cohorts for support and it would introduce Batman’s supporting cast. Boom! Crisis averted…until a new threat comes to town and challenges the gang.
    This makes it unnecessary to make this an origin story. I like it. I like it. Warner Bros., feel free to contact me with other ideas.

  116. Al Jagiello

    August 8, 2012 at 12:34 am

    I’m hoping they go a bit more fantastical than real this time. It would be neat to see a Gotham that is all sets and characters that are a bit more scifi (Lazarus Pits, Solomon Grundy-like characters, etc.). Also, include the whole Bat-family (Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Red Hood, etc.) and make Robin Damian Wayne. And, please, put cameos of his whole rogues gallery.
    Go with the look of Batman in the Batman title of the New 52. Dark grey and black leather-ish practical costume with some military style boots and what nots.

  117. Alex

    August 8, 2012 at 1:07 am

    I like your idea alot better then what they’re probably going to do. I’m not interested in watching Batman’s origin again. It worked for Spider-Man only because his origin isn’t overly long. Batman’s spans over ten years of intense training and I don’t think many people want to go through all of that. Hope they do what you said.

  118. Al Jagiello

    August 8, 2012 at 1:19 am

    I’m being a bit flippant but out would make sense. Just treat it like any other team up film. They wouldn’t have to go into details. They could even have the characters mention bits of their past in throwaway quips. Nightwing could mention things he couldn’t do that when he was Robin or something. I don’t know. I’d like to run with it. I’m not sure who I’d cast. I’m thinking the costumes could be similar to Captain America’s but…well…more Batman-esque. The rogues gallery would all be established in the opening scene at Arkham. It establishes the whole series as being familiar while still being nothing like Nolan’s films. It leaves it wide open to bring in the whole DCU while still being a Batman film and doesn’t need to be Marvel-like. It would also Tue in the New 52 and generate new readers to the comics.

  119. grendel007

    August 26, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    I think that most of these problems could have been cleared up in one of two ways.
    1. Two movies instead of one mashed up
    2. Nolan not doing trilogies when he seems to have lost interest after Dark Knight

  120. David

    August 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I agree with in almost every thing…

    I believed that kill Two-Face/Harvey Dent was a mistake, if Batman survives that fall so could he… and the Two-Face could be use as the reason to release the prisioners from Blackgate instead that letter from Gordon… do you imagine the impact of that scene… a man wearing the arkham mad house crazy shirt with a sack over his head… Bane speaks… then the revelation… it would be so more cool and make more sense…

    Alfred was prett annoying and let’s be real… Batman gone for 8 years and Gotham still have the same mayor ? But in the Dark Knight he was already mayor at least for a year… so he was reelected three times in a roll ?

    Bruce its obsessed by Gotham and the safety of the city… do you really think that Batman will be gone for 8 years ? Really ? And Batman always have a plan, do you really think that he will loose all his money and be poor ad do nothing about it ? And will abandon Gotham to his own luck after a mega crisis like this ?

    And about Blake, ok, he discovered that Bruce is Batman, but the reason its too week !!! And why the hell he is not Grayson…??? Honestly wo the hell is Robin ??? Robin its the character not the identity…

    Its sad that the movie end it that way… with so many mistakes…

  121. Trig

    September 5, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    The fight scenes sucked because the fight team used was different to the first two films, this really showed for me and although the film as a whole was a decent enough ending to the trilogy the fight scenes really did suck imho..

  122. Ubaid H. Chohan

    October 19, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Whatever people says, I just know that i watched a movie, Why the hell I should go in so deep?. I liked it people liked it and millions of waiting for Blu-ray. So its clear Nolan Rocked. I don’t give a damn about spoilers that are hard to find.

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